No, Chip, Listening Doesn’t Always Mean Affirming

I’m guessing that I’m like most conservative Christian married men my age, and by that I mean my wife loves Magnolia. In fact, when I graduated with my PhD a couple years back, we took a mini celebration trip as a couple to Waco, Texas. The location was perfect: we visited the silos of Magnolia since my wife was excited about that, and the Dr. Pepper museum because I was excited about that. On the way down to Waco we listened to some of the audiobook Capital Gaines, a cleverly titled autobiography by Chip. We were both impressed by the couple’s story, by their work ethic, and ultimately by the small, beautiful empire they have built in the little city of Waco. 

I share that because when I first heard that Chip and Joanna were including a gay couple on a new show Back to the Frontier, it hit a little close to home. We have great memories from the silos, we have enjoyed tasty, delicious meals from the Magnolia cookbook, and for years Chip and Joanna have provided wholesome entertainment that felt fun, light, and apolitical. In fact, when I first heard something about a gay couple and the Gaines, I hoped it was a mistake. I wasn’t clear on exactly what was going on, and thought that maybe this was one of those stories where the context made all the difference. I ignored the problem hoping it would go away, that when the dust settled it would become clear this was just trigger happy conservatives misrepresenting the truth. 

But it turned out to be as real a problem as I had been led to believe. A gay couple, with children, were being included in a show being produced by Magnolia Network. But maybe this was something the couple didn’t know about, right? Well, then Chip responded to all the negative attention with a tweet, stating “Talk, ask [questions], listen.. maybe even learn. Too much to ask of modern American Christian culture. Judge 1st, understand later/never. It’s a sad Sunday when ‘non believers’ have never been confronted with hate or vitriol until they are introduced to a modern American Christian.”

Countless articles and responses have been written, but I want to take just a moment to counter what I think is a problem with Chip’s opening line “Talk, ask [questions], listen.. maybe even learn.” I can’t help but see this as the logic we hear from progressives on this issue. I’m not saying that Chip is a progressive, but in at least this situation he has adopted their logic. That logic goes something like this: “You should listen to people you disagree with. If you did, you would find out that maybe you’re wrong and would be more accepting of them.” If we would listen to others, like this couple, then we wouldn’t be so bothered by them. I understand that logic, and sometimes it is accurate. Sometimes listening helps me realize that what I thought was wrong, and I change my mind. 

But there’s a problem with that logic. What if I talk, ask questions, listen, maybe even learn, but then at the end of the day I still think that it’s wrong for a show to promote a lifestyle that violates God’s Word? If I were to talk to the couple involved, I might indeed find out that they were kind people. I might find points of commonalities with the one or both members of the couple. We might even laugh at the shared experience of parenting. I can grant all of that, but that wouldn’t change my mind on the wrongness of homosexuality. My belief that homosexuality is wrong isn’t based on my personal feelings, on the Christian subculture I am in, or in a sense of revulsion or bigotry. My belief is based on God’s Word. No amount of listening to someone who disagrees with the Bible is going to change my mind. 

For progressives, the thinking behind this argument is often (though I’m sure not always) the belief that Christians are secretly, perhaps even unconsciously fueled by a negative bias against LGBTQ people. In some cases, this might be accurate. Sadly, there are some Christians who did change their mind when they got to know kind, decent people living a homosexual lifestyle. I can’t know this for sure, but based on his tweet I wonder if that is what happened with Chip. In these instances, it’s clear that their rejection of homosexuality was social and cultural, rather than scriptural. I can see why cases like these would motivate the pro-LGBTQ crowd to call for listening. But for some of us it really is as simple as “God said don’t do this.”

Maybe, however, Chip’s point was broader. Maybe he wasn’t saying that I should accept homosexuality, but that I should accept a gay couple on a Magnolia Network show. (This is all in theory, of course. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a Magnolia Network show.) Maybe he’s fine with me disagreeing with homosexuality, but I should be more accepting of including them in entertainment. “You don’t have to like it, but are you saying they can never be on TV?” might be the logic here. But if that is the point he is trying to make, he fails to realize what including a gay couple on his show is doing. He’s not just listening; he is platforming. He is declaring that two men having a family is essentially no different than a man and a woman having children. This isn’t listening. It’s promoting a lifestyle that God has called an abomination.

At its core, the problem here is that Chip has equated listening with affirming. “Just listen!” is the cry. “Okay, I listened and I disagree,” comes the response. “Well then, you didn’t really listen!” This is a misunderstanding of listening. Should we listen? Yes! Can we still disagree? Yes. It is a false dichotomy, and one that Satan wants us to accept, to say that we either listen and affirm or reject and prove that we aren’t really listening. Please, by all means, listen and listen carefully to friends, neighbors, enemies. Listen to everyone. But then hold everything up to the standard of God’s Word. You can listen and then disagree without being a hateful bigot. And you can be a Christian concerned that a couple who have marketed themselves to a Christian audience are now platforming sin without being filled with vitriol. 

I do hope that Chip and Joanna realize that they’re wrong on this. Cynically I am tempted to believe that this was motivated by a desire for profit, and that any backpedaling will be the unexpected result of a loss of profits. But hopefully, I think they might truly be confused on this issue, and that if the Holy Spirit really is dwelling within them He will guide them into all truth. 

And who knows? Maybe they’ll listen to those trying to warn them.

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Ben Hicks is the Associate Pastor at Colonial Hills Baptist Church in Indianapolis. This article originally appeared on his Substack.

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Photo by Sierra Bell on Unsplash